And so I just wanted to share my share my experience with you guys and it was pretty awesome to see if you get to see one albeit it was in the brush. Is there something particularly hospitable about New Hampshire Forests that make them want to come here. Peter Biello: Well hey Rob. Peter Biello: Thank you for sharing that. You could trace that was this same cat from point to point to point. M from Tree Hill author series presenting Diane lay back. About Lions. Erler is a senior naturalist at the Squam Lakes Natural Science Center in Holderness. So there is definitely no downward pressure by anyone. Fear for others and those two polarizing opinions on the situation is what I believe brings out mystique and Sam you know I take kind of a long view on this. This is not the same as saying that there has never been a mountain lion seen in New Hampshire. Using DNA and physical evidence, state environmental officials said they determined that the animal. Pelosi story here we go. Peter Biello: Rick I believe you did mention that that they do leave carcasses up in the tree from time to time but are there any other species known in New Hampshire to do this on a regular basis. Just. So yeah as far as wildlife species that put deer and trees know there aren't any others that I know of that put deer in trees just just humans might be responsible for that. We have evidence and as biologists we would find it quite exciting to find that evidence of one in the state. As recently as 2011 there was one young male mountain lion that cruised all the way from the black hills of South Dakota, up over the Great Lakes, down through New Yorkgetting spotted all along the waykilled a beaver near the Quabbin Reservoir in Central Massachusetts, left behind prints and DNA at that site, and then was hit by a car in Connecticut. Gotcha, so the Deep State is suppressing mountain lion news in order to prop up New Hampshire tourism? Just one quick point I think I think when we we talk about these conspiracy theories the real story is that fish and game is an agency that that is short on budget and staff. And I think this is a really interesting story for a couple of reasons one is that it proves what Pat was saying which that basically from New York state where its traces was really picked up on a game camera around Lake George all the way down to Connecticut there was numerous. But you won't find evidence of their existence in paw prints in the snow or a deer carcass in a tree. But before I go any further I want to say we do not have sufficient game. So they're scary. Peter Biello: So a little bit of nostalgia maybe for it for a better world embodied in the mountain lion. You treat it as if it's a sincere situation. There's a lot of photographs that you can see that it's very clearly a tabby cat that someone has thought was a mountain lion. And they were using all the habitat. So I want to start the program with a comment from someone who is not in the studio with us today. Mountain Lion report and as a biologist for the state that's a situation where if he said to me what did I see. Sam what's the incentive for the government to deny allegedly. Its impossible to say, but I think the odds are pretty good that some of these sightings are legit. He writes As a farmer I come across many outdoorsman looking to hunt our property had a conversation with one who believed very strongly that we had mountain lions in New Hampshire. Peter Biello: Today on the program Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife biologist and far better project leader Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in which is about the natural world and how we use it. Thank you for visiting the New Hampshire Fish and Game Department website. The western mountain lion lives in a more of a grassland open area now so to blend in with a very lighted situation here in the Northeast we are very shadowy dark situation because of the forest and our cats wear a darker brownish reddish color than what they were and they were also smaller than what the western mountain lion is. Yes. Me Im willing to believe its possible that there are some out there. So we're fixated on natural but there's other possibilities. HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. I'm Peter Biello. Seems reasonable! And why would they what. However, as far as I can tell theres no Deep State Conspiracy to cover up a breeding population of cougars in the Granite State. SUE Morse naturalist and science director for the organization keeping track. Sam Evans-Brown: So I just had two thoughts which is that we hear a lot of these stories and all of us here have heard these stories. So. If you missed part of today's program listen to the exchange. You've got you've got biologists right who are trying to make their make their way in the world make a career if you are the biologists who confirmed a sighting of mountain lions in the state that would be very good for you like you would be all over the news. But I do think that it's appropriate that a fishing game agency would recognize verifiable proof if they could. Were there any differences between these two that we could have noticed right off. There have been several sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. He shifted gears in 2016 and began producing Outside/In, a podcast and radio show about the natural world and how we use it. His work has won him several awards, including two regional Edward R. Murrow awards, one national Murrow, and the Overseas Press Club of America's award for best environmental reporting in any medium. Mountain Lions in New Hampshire-Fact or Fiction. John Holt's ideas were at first dismissed but he refused to be silent. A monthly donation of $5 makes a real difference. Almost all species disperse greater distances than females. JavaScript must be enabled for some features to display properly. Michael Brindley is our program manager our producers our Jessica Hunt and Christina Phillips and our theme music was composed by Bob Lord. Mountain lions remain an enigmatic animal for residents of New Hampshire, with New Hampshire Fish and Game reporting three to five sightings per week. Rick van de Poll: Rick van de Poll so I was a non-believer as well. I mean no doubt a seen Bobcat seen his stuff. I saw that had this giant the bobcat had this giant sweeping which is John Bobcat don't have big sweeping tails. You know I think it's there's a lady Holly Ernst out in California who has done a lot of the genotyping of mountain lions in Northern California the ones that are of course most people have heard about taking down hikers bikers etc. Patrick Tate: No downward pressure at all I think actually Sean turned up and we found the evidence there a number of people would finally say finally we can put this debate to bed. Good morning guys. Early in the morning. for some excitement. What's interesting about Bobcats is here in the Northeast we have some very large bobcats. And listeners this has been a lively conversation we're sorry we didn't get to all the the e-mailed comments and the phone calls your stories are appreciated even if we didn't get a chance to hear them today. So they're not afraid of humans and they'll show up like a regular housecat. The trouble with accepting every reported sighting as a confirmed mountain lion is that there are so many mistaken identifications. Let us know your story and share your photos. Mountain Lion | Squam Lakes Natural Science Center All exhibit and hiking trails are CLOSED for the season. DNA from scat or from fur, a clear track that is confirmed by an expert, or a photo that clearly shows a mountain lion. I think as Pat was saying you know 35 to 50 pounds on a male be reasonable range whereas mountain lions you're up to 100 110 maybe even 130 pounds on a big male. Patrick Tate: Okay. Its distinctive featurethe one that sets it apart from other North American wild catsis its tail, which is thick and often as long as its body. Lions Clubs Int'l Links: LionNet NH Links 2011 -2012 . And to anyone listening I would just say you know fishing game who wants proof right. From involving members in projects as local as cleaning up an area park or as far-reaching as bringing sight to the world's blind, Lions clubs have always . So give us a call now. You need you need either a really good photograph or you need you know fresh scat that can be sent to a lab out West that can they can be identified there. However, dispersing western mountain lions have left evidence as close as Connecticut, Massachusetts and New York. Peter Biello: Mm hmm. It doesn't happen as much anymore. Peter Biello: Let's go to Mike in Epping. The current estimate is 2,000 - 2,700 throughout Arizona. The Lions of New Hampshire: MD44 Links. Peter Biello: They make great mascots at least. Kyle I think about Rick Tate wants to jump in here. Here she is talking about how to identify a mountain lion. And there's there's no evidence of that cat's movement in that entire you know 12 hundred miles stretch of its journey. But no proof was offered. So I would put this in the category of sort of like shark attacks right. And just one more note about this danger question when even when you look at the states that have extended populations stable populations of mountain lions attacks are relatively rare. Caller: And the more I thought about it the color of it it was definitely not a bobcat. Second when I when they did forward it from Wyoming to to Michigan you know this was coming right from sample 18 and 19 had no remarkable differences from known mountain lions from Michigan or Wyoming. I mean they're a survivor. Because I mean as we've heard in the past 10 minutes like there's there's some disagreement or at least some some vagueness about what an actual mountain lion should appear like in the wild assuming we can even get close enough. The species that once inhabited the Northeast, known as the eastern mountain lion, is now extinct. And those and that's how you can go from a story that Pat says I have nothing to say about that to a story that you know could be the first verified sighting in over 100 years. In my New Hampshire career I have written several, and seen at least 20, stories along the lines of "local person thinks they saw a mountain lion but there's no actual evidence aside from. So Michael follows with the question. Monday, December 5th: Mountain Lions in New Hampshire? Some are included in lists of mountains, such as the Appalachian Mountain Club (AMC) list of the Hundred Highest peaks of New England, or the . If it's someone that has an illegal captive animal that is accustomed to humans those leave a lot of evidence because they want to go around humans to find food meaning they're used to being fed by humans. 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. And that's this morning at 10:00 here on NH PR. Peter Biello: Well John thanks very much for the story really appreciate it. He played a pivotal role and he battled for recognition. Which goes back to the Connecticut Connecticut cat and what not. I noticed it had a really big sweeping tail that kind of curled up behind it and all but still at that point because everyone says there's no mountain lions here. Sam Evans-Brown: But I mean the video I had been sent was you know a recording of a animal growling but it was in slow motion and when I asked the person why is this in slow motion the denied that it was so there's a lot of weird stuff that happens in regards to people claiming they've seen they've seen these things. And so so with their limited staff and limited budget that is that is more and more limited every year because you know fewer people are buying hunting and fishing licenses. Women control our lives. Don't miss your chance to win three two thousand dollar gas gift cards at any station of your choice not to mention the grand prize twenty five thousand dollars toward a new car. Peter Biello: Yeah well what do you think Pat is. From "History of New Hampshire Game and Furbearers" by Helenette Silver, Research Clerk, NH Fish and Game Dept. I mean there was this one lady I remember and tough tomorrow. But if you do if you think you're looking at a wild Puma their tail is very thick and especially in the winter is very thick and ponderous looking. The way that we define species has undergone a revolution with the advent of DNA testing. So here in New Hampshire when a person turns in something that the Department believes is possible mountain lion and believes it should be investigated further. Sam Evans-Brown: Well and I think and the last takeaway here is everyone I think probably agrees that any possible sightings that have been seen. I'll send it to you. I mean so what what is the practical change that it would bring to New Hampshire if any. And today we're talking about the mysterious elusive mountain line with folks who know something about it. The species that once inhabited the Northeast, known as the eastern mountain lion, is now extinct. Incredible sighting and I called him the fish and game and they immediately sent me to a website to look at all the bobcat pictures. The Connecticut Mountain Lion is the best documented wild Mountain Lion in New England. So the U.S. Forest Service Rocky Mountain Research Station has a database on mountain lion and they can identify. Join as a $8 per month sustainer and get our brand-new owl umbrella! The supervisor that hired me in the game division in October of 1978 passed on to me this whole big folder of mountain lion information and sightings going back probably a couple decades. Infinite Scroll Enabled. There's no logic for why they'd be listed as an endangered species. And I I have this great text history of New Hampshire game and fir bears and I think by Helen Silver who used to work for fish and game and she sort of I kind eyes this animal in one of the quotes from 1892 stating that the catamaran was the most ferocious of all the wild beasts of New Hampshire his great size strength and agility of movement together with his formidable weapons rendered him the terror both of man and beast. We're not in the woods. Patrick Tate: So one thing I'd say is DNA would definitely identify an animal animal's Mark line or not. Now again I don't know that there's anything to that. We send out DNA samples to the U.S. Forest Service Rocky Mountain Research Station. Want to report a Mountain Lion sighting in New Hampshire? It's not a skinny rope like tail like a housecat. So so they're just a very resilient species and they're pretty they're pretty neat. And you know it's rather interesting because certainly there are those you as a case of mistaken identity or they wanted to see something that perhaps they actually didn't. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an HD PR fine Peter Biello and today we're talking with folks who can tell us about the mysterious elusive mountain line and whether or not it is actually here in New Hampshire. You know you have to have a license and it's hard to get that license a license to own a mountain lion. He studied Politics and Spanish at Bates College, and before reporting was variously employed as a Spanish teacher, farmer, bicycle mechanic, ski coach, research assistant, a wilderness trip leader and a technical supporter. Peter Biello: So let's say Rick that it was confirmed that there that there are mountain lines here in New Hampshire. We are the second most-forested state in the country, and those forests can be impenetrable snarls (part of why the Northeast is notoriously a difficult place to hunt deer), and while there are people in a lot of those woods, because the cats have been absent for a few generations now, most of those people dont know what a cougar scrape or latrine look and smell like. Reports without physical evidence are not dismissed, however Fish and Game cannot verify a sighting report without physical evidence. Can you look into this picture. That's why we always go back to the physical evidence to support what they're reporting. There are corollaries in other states. The number 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 so promised a discussion about conspiracy theories. And it came out we could see it had and we could see its long swooping tail. GAP MOUNTAIN LIONS CLUB Fitzwilliam, New Hampshire (USA) District 44-N . 19 So before we get to the the the the stories of sightings we're getting a lot of calls. There have been several sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. We'll also hear your stories if you have them again. Have it reported down in the Keene area. So and so the idea that they can follow up on every individual sighting is just crazy right. I just don't understand the mechanism for how that would happen. Peter Biello: Hmm. Well let's talk a little bit about that. Mike Guyton pressure was almost Greyhound like very muscular large back legs on it and the coloration on it was almost an orange brownish orange color and so I stop and I look at this thing in the field and as the animal looks at me the face was very chiseled definitely not a bobcat. Peter Biello: Yeah some of what she was saying sounds like it would require getting pretty close or at least having a nice zoom lens right Sam like. Thanks for taking my call. Which which I think Pat and I have both experienced. This is a machine-generated transcript, and may contain errors. Thank you. The report came in from a conservation officer. Someone's got to see one they're very secretive. New Hampshire Public Radio | Mountain Lions are a mythical creature in New Hampshire with strong feelings on both sides of the question: are there Mountain Lions in New Hampshire? Post your sightings and NH photos here! So when we hear mountain lion there's also cougar there's wild cat there's Bobcat which is not a mountain lion maybe Patrick could you sort of spell out the different terms which are synonymous and which are completely different animals. Patrick Tate: So it's very typical. Fish and Wildlife Service decided all of the cougars, pumas, and mountain lions in the country are actually the same species, and that species hasnt had a breeding population anywhere near the Northeast for at least 70 years. So that's the specimen that you find going long distances. 10 things to do in NH this weekend: Dartmouth Dance, Hamilton De Holanda & more, Turkish restaurant in the Upper Valley aims to help those affected by recent earthquakes, RFK Jr. tells NH crowd hes considering a presidential run, Epping woman pleads guilty to threatening Michigan election official in 2020. Caller: Oh hi. So nowadays we think of this in the Northeast as crazy stuff that people have a mountain lion as a pet. So that did it for me. Give us a call if you have a question or comments or story about perhaps seeing a mountain lion here in New Hampshire. You don't know what's going on. Tim Yeah. Why are there so many false positives? Does not test random Scouts. We'll hear more about the mountain lions impact and the role it plays in the ecosystem. On a dirt road. Anyways after three weeks I finally found the image on line on a field and stream photo contest and the explanation in the end was the person that set the camera out with another individual and they believed that someone who knew of the camera location saw the similarities put the can't picture on their SD card so it looked like that camera recorded the image that is. Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife Biologist thanks very much for being here this morning really appreciate it. There wasn't a distinct subspecies the North American mountain lion is all is all one species and then you can find a genetically distinct South American subspecies. They create these scrapes where theyre communicating with each other with scent. I mean I that said I've lived out west for nine years. Course like Sue said you have to see it and it's not always that visible. There were several sightings in CT over the last few months. Peter Biello: Worth mentioning if we're scaring anybody question a mysterious mountain lions lurking perhaps in someone's backyard. The states never denied mountain lions are here, and theyve never admitted mountain lions are here. It's unfortunate that that kind of thing happens as often as it does. NHFG Wildlife Biologist Patrick Tate identifies this cat as a bobcat. We discuss what residents may have been seeing and what breeding mountain lion pairs would mean for our ecosystem. Well Is DNA the most reliable means we have of identifying whether or not what we saw is actually a mountain lion. Do they travel. So you know until I found those two scats I didn't think that mountain lions were here in the east. Peter Biello: This is NHK PR Good morning and HP are summer car raffle is back and now's the time to get your early bird tickets. Patrick Tate: If I could just say one thing. 44-H Links. Peter Biello: I did mention four feet nose to tail would be kind of small for a mountain lion. Patrick Tate: I've from all the situations I've read and learned about wildlife. Patrick Tate: So I agree with what Sam said in part that their ability to go undetected for amount of time but ultimately it was detected. So if you were to ask me has a mountain lion ever passed through New Hampshire and been spotted by somebody who wasnt able to get hard evidence? Id personally be willing to say "probably, yes.". So I just throwing that out there it's interesting. It's got a a smudge of black and bobcats and links just don't have that we don't have any other cards. Select image for larger view. And trying to figure out the little pieces to identify him so I bring up the names the differences but the appearances can be confusing for some. Are these big cats back?Subscribe to WMUR on YouTube now for more: http://bit.ly/1lOjX9CGet more Manchester news: http://wmur.comLike us: http://facebook.com. They kill big animals. Think you've seen a mountain lion? Peter Biello: But clearly you know you're saying like hoaxes people who claim to have seen a mountain lion but knowingly have not or are appropriating photos taken elsewhere of legit mountain lion say out West where they people acknowledge that they exist certainly knowingly or unknowingly in this case the person who sent it to me said hey a friend of mine sent me this photo and said he took it on his back porch also. We'd be inundated with scouts in the past when newspaper articles have been written about DNA and scouts. NHPR is nonprofit and independent. Since 1917, Lions clubs have offered people the opportunity to give something back to their communities. If you believe you have seen a mountain lion and want to report it to NH Fish and Game, please contact the Wildlife Division at (603) 271-2461 or wildlife@wildlife.nh.gov to request an observation report form. This is the exchange. There's always been physical evidence to prove those situations like hair or fur scat hair prints pictures of the animal print scat hair. Thanks for a great thanks. Patrick Tate: So the individuals can say that but for an agency that's based on science and what not to to go off with no evidence and then get into that giant debate and all these other issues and put credibility at risk I don't think that would be a great path to take. So I don't understand really how how this this idea came to be but it is the main reason why folks believe that fishing game is is covering up the fact that there are mountain lions in the state again with no evidence. I tracked cats and all the western states. So what counts as verifiable evidence? The second story window through about 30 feet away from it. Is there a way we can learn more about these dispersing mountain lions that may travel through the Granite State and that I would ask you certainly part about whether or not a he's spending too much time chasing down these kind of false leads or B would rather be doing something else that is more informative to whether or not we actually have or can prove that we have dispersing mountain lions in the state. The best documentation we have in New Hampshire suggests there hasnt been a mountain lion killed by a hunter in this state since 1885. And the cougar embodies that. Sam Evans-Brown: Certainly that is a thing I've heard but again you have to think of the incentives involved here. Some of the reports that I looked into that were actually on file at the local fish and game office were even from people who did not live locally. Something along those lines. They absolutely do. Want to put this to to Patrick Tate who may have heard some some info or info from listeners like you about these these these cats. Peter Biello: So Patrick today Fish and Game no downward pressure on you to deny the existence at all costs of mountain lions here in New Hampshire. Pat humans people leave deer carcasses up in trees. Well thanks for sharing. So and so they so they do get pretty involved. Any sense of of whether or not mountain lions are sort of wary of more population dense areas like like the one he was describing Rick. For me as a person who's handled many bobcats and looked at many pictures Bobcat the White chin Bobcat right off is what comes out to me and then the black the the roughs on our Bobcats we'll have sometimes have black fringes on them.
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