98% original, WINCHESTER MODEL 25 PUMP SHOTGUN SOLID FRAME MODEL BARREL LENGTH 28" CHOKE MODIFIED. This fine shotgun comes from the factory with a Cutts choke system, Metal surfaces rate near excellent, handling marks to wood. a post would have spent 281.5 hours trying to correct off handed remarks as a expert about winchester model 12's & 42's. Alex, we don't have enough info to give you an informed opinion. This was a result of the Watrous report, which recommended that many of the slow-selling options be discontinued following the war. Askins Ithaca 10-gauge double with 2 7/8-inch chambers averaged 86.9% with 1 5/8-ounces of shot. However, the Model 12 duck gun should still be an excellent long-range waterfowl shotgun with the right ammunition. seller description. The Model 12 shotgun, initially the Model 1912, hit the market in August 1912. Rib Boat, Winchester Winchester Rifle Parts, 12 in Frame 12 in Wheel Electric Bikes, 12 Gauge Barrels, Youth Football Rib Protector . Full choke was the only standard boring available. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Madis comments Fancy walnut was considered too fancy for the rough treatment often given a duck gun. Fancy walnut could be ordered and the few pidgeon-grade duck guns had fancy walnut. S/N 1,589,*** made in 1954. 80 of 1916 indicates seven empty 12-gauge paper shell lengths (2-1/2 to 3-1/4 inches). It is general consensus that 10 patterns are required for an accurate appraisal of a given load and barrel combination. generous return policy, and handle everything you dont have to go back to There are currently no customer product questions on this lot. Thanks for all the info,my Grandfather died when I was in 12th grade in 1971 and I now have his field grade Mod.12 and 9 others love them all.I also have my Great Grandfathers Mod.97. Winchester Model 12 12 GA For Sale Winchester 12 GA Model 12. Total production reached two million. For specifics on Copyright Law and One of my favorite subjectsI've read and reread the books by Madis, Riffle, and Stadt, and I still find it a little confusing. L.O.P. Terms and Conditions and Privacy Policy. Metal parts of the Model 12 are machined from chrome-molybdenum, the toughest, longest wearing and finest gun steel known. Barrel lengths were 30 or 32 inches, but 32-inch barrels were discontinued in 1948. It still is. Condition: excellent bright bore, 98% blue overall thinn, Winchester Model 12. The first was helping the gunsmiths. But I manage to concentrate, find the combination, and center a pair of easy sprigs. A study of Michael McIntoshs book Best Guns indicates that a few thousand of the specialized waterfowl doubles of all brands were sold between 1921 and 1941. That luck ran out following World War I when the arms industry declined and the management of Winchester was relinquished to outsiders. Although the quality of the rib will be the same as the original Winchester, the only way a Simmons rib looks OK on a Model 12 is if they DON'T put their silly name down the side of the rib. "Metal parts of the Model 12 are machined from chrome-molybdenum, the toughest, longest wearing and finest gun steel known." Barrel lengths were 30 or 32 inches, but 32-inch barrels were discontinued in 1948. the ventilated rib is by simmons gin works. Checkered semi-fancy walnut pistol grip stock with extended forearm and a solid Winchester recoil pad. Bob Hinman, in his 1972 GUN DIGEST article Ten Cents a Duck, notes that Shooting for the market was at one time a way of life for thousands of Americas skilled shotgunners.. be complicated. Winchester sent some M-12s to Simmons to have ribs installed, Simmons returned them to Win. For small bores, there are still new factory wood sets available. I know of a gun shop in Idaho that can take about any model 42 and put on round post ribs or solid ribs that are just like factory original with the proof marks. The drop at heel was reduced from 2-1/2 to 2-3/8 inches in December 1938. Included with the gun is its orig, Winchester Model 12, 28 Gauge in very good to near fine original condition. As far as early 2 pins, remember there were a few made as early as 1919, standard and "graded" model 12's (ie) "Black Diamaonds" they had the longer checkered forearm. prior written consent of the Copyright holder. Bids. The marsh is in riot! 1 Winchester Model 70 Ultra Grade Featherweight 270 Win. Madis states Winchester spent a great deal of time and effort to develop better chokes. Furthermore, Winchester constantly experimented, searching for improvements in all chokes, even the old standby full choke. Winchester almost certainly would have perfected their Full-choke Model 12 duck gun to maximize patterns with #4 lead shot, the size most mentioned for long-range duck shooting in publications prior to the advent of non-toxic shot. The history of Oliver F. Winchester (1810-1880) and his endeavors in the manufacturing of fire-arm sat Bridgeport and New Haven, Connecticut, is filled with circumstances that could have led to corporate failure. There are 16 pages of loads for various shell lengths, shot sizes (dust through buck, soft or chilled), five powders, five shell grades and 11 gauges. Used Winchester Model 12 20 Gauge 26" barrel WS-1 choked skeet Cutts compensator with restriction inserts good condition reduced, Winchester Model 12 Pigeon Grade 12 Gauge. , Winchester - Model 12, Deluxe, Pump Action, RARE 28ga. Consider the possibility of a hang-fire, an occasional event in 1912, in a gun without the slide lock feature. Winchester was bankrupt and went into receivership in January 1931. Probably a lot farther than we can hit em. I hope this helps you out A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. Need Help?service@guns.comCall (866)582-4867, PO Box 1131 13800 Nicollet Blvd Burnsville, MN 55337 2023Guns.com. Small depression in the magazine tube, as shown in pictures. organized, dont tell you a lot about what youre buying, and leave you on your The famous Winchester Model 1912 pump shotgun was designed by Winchester's Thomas C. Johnson. Winchester recognized the scarcity of ducks in their promotional advertisement of the new duck gun To Meet the New Wildfowling Conditions. I suspect most Model 12 duck guns bought before World War II were put to work on other game. Model 12 Skeet Pump Shotgun. Just to add th the issue, here's a note that I copied from Trapshooters.com some time age. Stadt's book is a very good book that alot of people don't seem to know about. I hunker down and blaze away. So here is a history lesson on the skeet grade. WE DO NOT SHIP INTERNATIONALLY $40 Shipping. The new Model 12 duck gun was introduced to long-range waterfowl hunters habituated to heavy double shotguns chambered for 3-inch shells. The receiver is heavier and so is the barrel. No Reserve. rifle w/ Jaeger Quick Detachable scope mount 3 Remington mod. Popularly named the Perfect Repeater at its introduction, it largely set the standard for pump action shotguns over its 51-year high-rate production life. George Madis indicates in his book The Winchester Model Twelve that about 18,000 Model 12 duck guns were sold during the 1935-1941 period. However, Winchester and his succeeding family members successfully managed Winchester Repeating Arms Company from 1866 to 1919. Askins stated in Modern Shotguns and Loads: All shotguns which are intended for long range work.should be patterned at 60 yards. Continuing, loads which pattern around 85% [at 40 yards] have that quality which will permit them to continue a pattern on down the range.Askins found that each yard of range beyond 40 yards reduced pattern density by an average of two percent. Another sign of an after factory rib were the numer of 30" Full field guns later ribbed either with Simmons or MoneyMaker ventilated ribs, but the top milled groove in the receiver was a dead-give-away as to that, and when the Model 12 ruled the ATA roost, I am sure many "newbies" bought those modified and restocked field guns and thought - "Wow- now I have a Model 12 Trap gun- look out Vandalia, here I come"--I have several post 1935 12 gauge Model 12 buttstocks and also 18 ring forearms in my "parts boxes, also older logo and non-logo repro 12 gauge black bakelite buttplates-the 16 and 20 and 28- all on the same size receiver, take the same stock configuration. Initially came a series of auto-loading rifles, including the rimfire Model 1903 and centerfire rifles, culminating with the Model 1910, chambered for the 401 WSL cartridge. That is why I have never used one of my duck guns for duck hunting. Not shown in the table of results are the dense centers of patterns obtained with #4 shot compared to # 8 and #2 shot. Sales of 100,000 were recorded in the first two years of production. Action works very nicely. The Model 12 duck gun came to market at the all-time low point of duck populations in the United States. Copyright 1995-2023 eBay Inc. All Rights Reserved. The slide handle was enlarged in about 1956 to a slightly extended beaver tail shape with 14 circular grooves. ORIGINAL BOX INCLUDED. But for some reason, buying a gun online can Winchester needed to cut it's manufacturing costs and the milled vented rib was a costly proceedure. The nearest thing to a Model Twelve that could appear, whether domestic or foreign, would be a shotgun with the same model designation, but it would not and could not be a Model Twelve. Browning, in fact, did import foreign-made copies of the Model 12 after Madis wrote the above. All Rights Reserved, Winchester Model 12 Heavy Duck Gun 30" Simmons Vent Rib 1953 Pre 64 Rare 12 Ga. Magnum 3" Edition Proof Marking. In an ad in the October 1952 American Rifleman, Winchester proclaimed. Askins rule of thumb of 70 years ago still pertains with modern lead-shot ammunition. I believe the blueing to be original. Both guns were disassembled, cleaned and lightly oiled before testing. No Reserve. My wife shot her share of ducks with a 20-gauge autoloader bored Improved Cylinder shooting one ounce of #7 1/2-shot. My 1953 duck gun has the factory solid rib. Winchester Model 12 12 ga 30 in Barrel 2 3/4" Full vent rib Barrel NICE! An 80% pattern they felt should make it a real 60-yard outfit with No. Length of pull was reduced in January 1936 to reflect the extra clothing worn by duck hunters. I have read the 3 different books I have on model 12's from cover to cover many times. . 1934 skeet grade offerd. The standard length was 2-5/8 inches. Possible the fore end has been either replaced or re done. It is the skeet style of stock with a comb drop of 1 1/2 2 1/2 inches, and a 14-inch length, butt to trigger. Winchester Custom Model 12 20ga Deluxe GI#: 102228842 Winchester Custom Model 12 20ga 2 3/4" 28" full choke barrel,Simmons vent rib,serial #683559,fancy French Walnut checkered stocks with great color and figure,jeweled bolt and lifter,ex .Click for more info Seller: First Stop Gun Area Code: 605 $1,750.00 Will Winchester ever build the Model 12 again? MAKE OFFER. Action works perfectly. 3-inch Super Twelve Shotshell My copy of Winchesters Catalog No. - for PayPal Credit, opens in a new window or tab, about earning points with eBay Mastercard, Report this item - opens in new window or tab. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. The era of the double gun was ending as World War II approached. There is some difference in what they say but are good reference. Save $500.02 SKU: 3226743 . Stock is very fine, with light scratching, pressure dents and an attractive grain pattern. It was Western that produced the 3 1/2-inch 10-gauge magnum with 2 ounces of shot in 1932. Most sellers have no idea what they are selling. Nash Buckingham was one of the great duck-hunting writers of the period. The stock has a hard-rubber plate and a real, full pistol grip carved close to the guard. at the best online prices at eBay! This is not John Waynes revolver it is a modern work of art! I RATE THE BLUING AT 98% AND THE WOOD AT 96+%. The Pitt-man-Robertson Act of 1937 began an 11 percent excise tax on sporting arms and ammunition. Dolphin717, please give us a page reference in Stadt where he mentions Simmons sending Model 12s with ribs back to Winchester for finishing, and/or marketing. Saint Charles, Missouri. Auction Date: December 7, 2019 Estimated Price: $ 8,500 - $ 13,000 Price Realized: Details Exceptional and Documented Smoothbore Winchester Model 61 Slide Action "Rifle" with Simmons Vent Rib and Box Manufacturer: Winchester Model: 61 Type: Shotgun Gauge: 22 LR Shot Barrel: 24 inch vent rib Finish: blue Grip: Stock: walnut Item Views: 1599 THE VENTILATED RIB IS BY SIMMONS GIN, 16ga, Full Choke, 26" barrel with a bright and shiny bore. Looks to me a bit like the raised rib on a Lutjic one barrel trap gun- and the 870- well, Rudy Etchen shot a 12 gauge 870 Trap Grade he got new in 1950-I'd like to have a C-note for every clay bird, box pigeon and game bird he shattered with that old Remmie- I could move in next to Bill Gates- or maybe his gardener!! The Simmons rib is done at Winchesters direction as it has the WP proof offset from the rib. Stock has a Monte Carlo cheekpiece and European pistol grip with a right hand palm swell. This shotgun is in near new condition in the original box. Charles Askins provides data for the patterning of several of his personal shotguns with Westerns Super X shells loaded with their new #4 copper-plated shot. It was an immediate success. This percentage was disappointing compared to the 80% or better patterns obtained with other duck guns tested by the staff. The short shot string put more shot into a duck whistling by at 50 yards. Mar 24, 2023 Winchester Model 12 Shotgun $150 Mar 24, 2023 Two Winchester Pump Shotguns $150 Mar 24, 2023 L.C. And, as WRACO states, Simmons installed Model 12 ribbed guns were sold by Simmons, not Winchester. Options for the Model 12 duck gun were reduced over the years, particularly following World War II. Winchester Model 12 in 16 ga with a 26" barrel with a full choke. 2. There are Simmons marketed guns with proper Winchester proof marks. SN is 167xx, all numbers do match. winchester model 12 description: for sale is a very nice vintage winchester model 12, 12ga ga shotgun. . Emphasis was placed on loads of #4 shot because of its historical significance in waterfowl hunting and association with the long-range objectives of the Model 12 duck gun. H. Lea Lawrence relates in his 2001 GUN DIGEST article, The Saga of Bo Whoop, that in 1921 John Olin sent Buckingham his personal heavy double, a custom-choked Super Fox, for testing. Winchester suggests their 3-inch 12-gauge shotshells with 1 3/8-ounces or 1 5/8-ounces of #4 shot for wildfowl hunting in their 1951 Ammunition Handbook: These shells were developed especially for extremes in long range shooting with 12-gauge Winchester Model 12 and Model 21 Heavy Duck Guns.. See pi, Winchester Model 12, 28 gauge SKEET pump action shotgun, circa 1955. I believe that Stadt's book is one of the few that actually states that Winchester did produce M42s with Winchester vent ribs. My name is Chuck 620 515 0556. And our The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Madis states Ventilated ribs were rarely offered on [duck] guns. However, The fact is a few duck guns were provided with these ribs. Dave Riffles book and the various catalogs I have indicate that the Winchester new ventilated rib was an option from about 1954 to 1959. Made in 1928, 12 Gauge, 28"" barrel. 26" Vent Rib Barrels Choked SKEET. Winchester advises Do not use steel shot in any Winchester shotgun with a fixed choke. Use tungsten polymer, tungsten matrix or bismuth shot for waterfowl hunting with your Model 12 duck gun. Keith stated in 1967: The old 70% standard is now obsolete and most any full choke gun will go 75% or better. Click here for more information. 2023 Rock Island Auction Company. A Simmons Rib has been added to the barrel and the metal was refinished. Alarm calls! The Winchester Model 1912 (also commonly known as the Model 12, or M12) is an internal-hammer pump-action shotgun with an external tube magazine. Buckingham is jump-shooting with his big double gun. The balance point is the takedown joint. At Guns.com, if an FFL is The Model 21 double seemed the reasonable choice for Winchesters duck gun. Lot 6593: Winchester Model 42 Slide Action Shotgun . Second Media Corp., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Elmer Keith instructs:For the man who wants greater range and a bigger shot load for duck or goose shooting, the Model 12 Winchester is in a class by itself [with] the long 3 load. Nevertheless, the 1 7/8-ounce load appeared in the mid-50s and now a full two ounces of shot can be had in the 12 magnum. 1935 3" magnum offerd, will convert all 12 gages if wanted to 3" magnums, the begining of the long forcing cone. It also got a new action slide. MAKE OFFER. We have a I also have seen a few in my day where the solid rib was removed and actually sent a customers Black Diamond to Simmons back in the seventies to put a vent rib on a solid rib gun. Winchester Pre War Mod 12 Trap 2 Barrel Set 12ga, Winchester Pre 64 Mod 12 DU Illinios No.1 Engraved by M Dubber, WINCHESTER MODEL 12 HEAVY DUCK 12GA 3 INCH MAGNUM, Winchester Model 12 16 Gauge rare 2-barrel set, Used Browning BT99 Plus 12 gauge 28" bbl fixed choke mod good condition no box no manuals, WINCHESTER MODEL 12 16GA PUMP ACTION SHOTGUN, Winchester Mod 12 Vent Rib B-Carved Wood 12ga, "Winchester Model 12 Shotgun 12 Gauge (W12258), Winchester, Ducks Unlimited, Model 12, 12 Ga, Shotgun, Winchester Model 21 Heavy Duck, 12ga, 30" 3" mag, Briley Chokes, Winchester Model 12 12 ga. Deluxe Skeet grade w/ factory Cutts, Winchester Model 1912 Nickel Steel 20 gauge 24" VR bbl EARLY Serial #. Askins wrote in his 1929 book Modern Shotguns and Loads: Perhaps half the game that is killed in America today is shot with repeating shotguns, pump or automatic. Yes the 2-pin milled rib was costly to manufacture. The vent rib is stamped "SIMMONS GUN SPECIALTIES INC. KANSAS CITY, MO.". Get 12 Issues a year of the country's best firearms writing. Although the quality of the rib will be the same as the original Winchester, the only way a Simmons rib looks OK on a Model 12 is if they DON'T put their silly name down the side of the rib. Winchester - Model 12, Deluxe, Pump Action, RARE 28ga. Winchester - Model 12 Factory Try-Gun, 12ga, 30" Barrel. Then people would choose a grade of model 12 and add or change things to ther hunting or shooting style. Solid rib model 12 made in 1954. No Reserve. 30" Vent Rib Excellent White Front . Ernie Simmons had a close relationship with Winchester & John Olin; if you find any NSSA ,ATA, Field & Stream and Sports Afield magazines pre-war and post war you'll find he sold plenty of Winchesters out of his gun shop and attended many shoots selling target guns. My gun is a pump action Model 12 shotgun with a grooved slide handle (forearm). Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! The original "Old milled rib" was developed by Winchester in the 1920's- but like so many of the older quality features, post WW11 competition by Remington and Ithaca made Olin-Winchester more "cost concerned"-- Many Model 12's were equipped with Simmons ribs afterwards, some were sent to New Haven by Simmons, and some Model 12's (and others . $899.97. The price in 1963 was $122 compared to $109.50 for the standard Model 12. very accurate description and fast delivery, HOCH Reloading Single Cavity Mold c56 309170 .309 170gr nose pour NICE (#334593408927), Arrived quickly, well packaged, item is as described. later on flinching became a problem with 12 gauge shooters becouse of 300 round tournaments. Skeet gun marked "2 7/8" chamber skeet 28 gauge. President Roosevelt signed the law limiting magazine repeaters to three shells for migratory game bird hunting in 1935.
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